Discussion: How to improve the current Gho Game

The GhostsProject WG plans on building a sustainable point economy system(Gho Game), that reward community members that actively engage in diverse platforms including but not limited to Discord, Instagram, or Twitter. At the moment the Gho Game is in an experiment stage, where new things are tried out each round.

However, throughout the rounds, the following were observed:

  • The number of participants in drastically decreasing
  • Low participation rate in missions
  • Missions related to Twitter were not very effective in attracting new users or increasing the exposure of GhostsProject
  • Besides MrMisang’s ‘Typical Office Hours’ the current prizes are not attractive enough?

The WG would like to hear the voices of community members. Any feedback/suggestion is welcome. Please share any feedback/suggestion on how to improve the current Gho Game.

Ex)

  • How could the current Gho Games be improved?
  • Other activity/games for future rounds of Gho Games?
  • Other prizes for Gho Games?
6 Likes

I think the prize is good, but the game you guys should find a team to make the game for the ghost project , similar to any other project that has its own game.

Thanks for posting this subject.

After the test round is over, I am thinking to make around 12~24 arts specifically for GhostsProject and use them as rewards for 12~24 rounds. I am planning to make the story of Fragments richer through those arts and it will take around 1~2 years once the round starts. Not too heavy work though, you can imagine it as the level of Niftygateway - Masked Workers’ each characters.

But as WG pointed out, the current point system is not working well.

Here are my thoughts:

1. Are the prizes not attractive enough?
→Not something to consider

Regarding arts, I am making a new objects within my capability. And even we consider adding other expensive products, that’s not very sustainable way.

  1. Should we keep playing BlackJack and Poker?

    -Considering the main round will last at least 1~2years, we can’t play card games for 1~2years in Discord. Not sure that would be plausible gaming experience

    -Even we replace those games with others, the result will likely to be same

    -Twitter Post/Mission falls in same category. It is better if community members share contents willingly

  2. Why we do point system and provider reward?

    -In order to encourage the participation of Ghosts Users. I guess it is circulating problem just like # 2

So I am proposing next experiment with purpose of making story of Fragments richer and actively promoting them to the people.

  1. Points for people who creates contents that expands or re-interpret the Fragments. Contents can be arts, musics, novel or anything (Even AI Arts). It can be you making something for specific cut of Fragments or adding stories to between specific cuts. This won’t be a contest so all creators will get the points regardless of the quality of works but with limits on how many they can create and earn points per month.

  2. Once those arts pile, community votes for N contents. And if creators of selected contents want, GhostsProject buy those contents(arts) with fixed prices
    (Ex : Offer to the creators with fixed prices of 0.3 ETH/ but if creators reject, no need to purchase)

  3. The contents purchased with treasury will be used as additional rewards for next rounds. And if possible, add specific room for those contents in the Memories section of GhostsProject Website and post these contents till the round ends (Specific method needs to be discussed with OFF)

  4. Everyone can’t be creators so people who rt and share the contents will also get points. This will be feasible if we can manage [How many works creators can submit per months] and [How much points can be acquired from sharing] properly so even non-creators can collect points as creators do.

  5. Points for Host of Ghostsbuskers

    Even host for other events similar to GhostsBuskers, they will also get points.

    Should we give points to participants? Not so sure.

  6. There is also Idea of distributing points with specific cap per round: Ex) 10,000 points Cap per round. (Will it be better? or not?)

We still have many test rounds until we initiate the main rounds so we need your thoughts and opinions.

Pros :
Provide motivation to expand story of Fragments

Cons :
Another monthly expense from treasury

Goal :
Make the world of Ghosts richer through continuous reinterpretation of Fragment. By opening semi-contest, encourage more creators to inflow so trading fees acquired in the market can be bigger than expense for purchasing contents eventually.

4 Likes

Thank you for your opinion, Mr.Misang!

I agree with the general direction that your idea is suggesting. The current point system’s structure is not sustainable in terms of both community experience and participation.

I believe the points should be given to compensate for the activities that actually contribute to the expansion of GhostsProject’s network power; in that implementing a reward system based on content generation sounds ideal approach.

But as we all are aware, additional expense on treasury may come as a burden during this bear market if we have to purchase contents created every month while how much relevant exposure/expansion those contents actually generated is hard to measure.

So I think of some alternative options.

  1. Community votes and only 1 content/art will be selected and purchased by Treasury

    Pros: Less burden for Treasury

    Cons: Less motivation for people to participate since there is a small odds being selected → may look like a competition

  2. Community vote and few content/art will be selected but creators can choose whether they want their content to be purchased by Treasury or exchange it for Discord Points so they can buy other arts/prizes

    Pros: Less burden for Treasury by giving an option for creators

    Cons: It may look like forcing artists/creators to exchange/sacrifice their creations for Discord points to purchase Mr.Misang’s art or other prizes

  3. Community votes and a few content/art will be selected and minted under the title of “Official GhostsProject Derivative Art (or any other name)” approved by DAO. Selected content/art will be acknowledged as an official derivative art collection of GhostsProject and auctioned publicly.

    Pros: No burden for Treasury, Can promote people to generate quality content, Can go viral if auction hits successfully

    Cons: The participation rate for auctions is unpredictable.

Still, there are a lot of details that need to be adjusted so we can experiment with it during the test rounds but I believe that the path you suggested is definitely on the right track.

Let me know what you guys think!

2 Likes

Oh interesting, your idea is great. :heart_eyes:

1 Like

First of all, I want to point out why people stop playing blackjack and poker.

  1. Only way to achieve the prizes are through martingale betting.
    to get the prize, martingale betting was the only way. However, after 1st round, daily gho points were decreased from 20 to 10, to make more harder to have the prize through martingale betting. However this did not solve the problem, just destroyed the only hope that players had.

  2. Prize should sold through the auction.
    If we set up the price, only martingale betters are gonna get it. Since we have 10/10 art , each round we can have 10 auctions where all players have at least a chance to have the art.

  3. Gho points per projects’ nfts holding
    I know its very controversial, but people who put more money into this project would likely to be a heavy community member.

  4. art contests
    I do totally agree with this but winner should get Gho points not eth. we are here to build a community but most likely this would go to any other artists.

  • art contests rules -
    players can vote/bet using their Gho points which art would be the 1 and winning groups get their points back + other voting/betting points (artist would get higher % of this pie)

eventually when we have a decent artists group as our heavy holders, we can turn the prize into eth, but not for now.

2 Likes

Yes, I agree. Distributing the points with the gamble(or gamble like game) was one of several methods, but it didn’t seem to work well. Are non-Gamble games okay? Come to think of it, there really doesn’t seem to be any connection between winning the game and earning points.

Differential payment of points for each number of Ghosts is an imaginable idea, but I have no idea how to design it. For example, wouldn’t the top 10 users win every auction? Any more specific ideas about this?

If the reward is sold through a point auction, the top 10 (who want the reward) will always be able to take the reward. very good.

As you said, I think it is better to focus on the point itself rather than Ethereum for now.

However, I still think that purchasing selected works with Ethereum is a good idea in that it is also an opportunity to pre-empt good works by artists with potential for growth at the designated price on the treasury. Let’s keep this idea for the future.

A way to spend or earn points on voting seems like a good idea. At least, it seems that the method of paying points per Twitter post can be replaced. I think there is an incentive to voluntarily post to promote voting. Problems such as collusion between users are expected, but at least there is no need to worry about it now. It would be a good idea to try it during the test round.

Come to think of it, this voting-point system can be applied to various fields even if it is not an art contest. For example, whether or not to add ‘A’ as a server emoji, etc…

Thanks for the good comments.

@Davidd @wise

  1. Is it possible to auction with Discord points?
  2. Is it possible to use points to vote on Discord?
  3. Is it possible to give points from the losing group to the winning group?
  4. Is it possible to apply a higher % to a specific person (artist)?
1 Like

I am down for auction system in terms of providing fair chances of everyone to at least participate. Not saying the BlackJack or RR didn’t provide a fair chance though as the points acquirable throughout the rounds have been drastically increased and anyone could have won the arts without playing games >

Also #3 might be controversial but I think it is defiantly worth to try if we can set the acceptable rate, for I believe the essence of the entire Gho system (whatever form it takes) is to encourage the participation of core or more community members.

Agree with on giving away Gho points ratherETH. I think setting a ratio of 5:5 (50% USDC, 50% Gho Points) might help on-board more artists and align the value of them and that of GhostsProject at the same time. → I found this approach effective for other DAOs who runs with their native governance token.

Thank for your comments and continuous contribution, Tony!

1 Like

Those functions are not available at current bot system but I will look other available bots that provide those functions since store or game system may not need if we utilize auction and vote system

1 Like
  1. gho point distribution
    Although heavy holders would have more points than others, to achieve 10/10 art piece, they have to involve with the “art contest”. Whole point of making art contest using the new voting system is that we as ghosts project holders can learn how figure out which art is better than others without rarity tools and other web3 like systems. heavy holders might have some power to pick which art piece would win or not but it’s holders’ job to convince them just like our DAO system.
    example) 1 round could runs for 1 - 2 months and if we run art contests very week, no matter how much heavy holders get, it would be lower than someone who successfully pick winning art contests.

it can be beyond art contests, may be appreciation contests too. the whole points are not only collecting heavy involved holders but also make our discord as a salon where people can learn and improve artistic viewpoints and insights. and only who achieved these goals would end up getting 10/10 arts.

  1. I do agree with pre-empt good works by artists with potential for growth. in this case how about Mr. Misang choose the winner and then all the other holders can learn something from Mr. Misang. If we can do this, we already have 2 different voting contests which would be way better than just gambling.

I want to build our discord a salon where holders can have a chance to improve their artistic insights and pathway to not only communicate with Mr.Misang but also to understand his artwork more deeply and fully.

1 Like
  1. Gho point distribution
    Great.

2-1. It must be selected by a vote from the community, not based on the taste of a specific person. Especially if we are going to spend eth (or USDC). Or for example we can create a ‘curator’ role to do that. Sure I can take on the role temporarily if necessary. For example, we might try 2-3 reps within a test round and decide.

But it must be temporary and one of community member should take that role and rights in the future.

2-2. But curator system seems to conflict with the voting system you suggested. - any more ideas on this point?

1 Like

there would be two types of Gho games

  1. Gho art contest (Monthly)
    First week of every month, holders have a week to take part in the contest.
    (max 10 arts)
    after closing, all holders have two weeks to vote using their Gho points.
    Competition ends in the last week and winning artists/holders have not only their points back and other voted points.
    (artists have 40% of other voted points and 60% will be distributed to the winning voters)

  2. Curator’s auction (Monthly)
    Gho art contest winning artist has a chance to be a curator and it’s okay to list up the artist’s projects or art pieces. the curator will list up 5 to 10 arts and holders decided which one would be bought using our treasury (Eth or USDC) under the same rule.
    ※ Purchase price is fixed
    if Monthly Ghosts project’s transaction fee * 10% < 0.1 eth, we give the curator Gho
    points as much as they won at the Gho art contests
    else purchase price is fixed at monthly transaction fee * 10%

we could make so many derivatives using this “voting competition system”. We can list up the Ghost busker’s songs, and we can have a monthly Ghoflix night and choose which movie to watch together.

3 Likes

This will be very a good way of piling art contexts. Love the ideas.

imo​:koala::rabbit::ghost:
#GhostsProject

Continue

  1. Generousity of MrMisang is outstanding. There are tons of good voices at this point.
  2. Gho game of #GhostsProject is a good example of weekly, biweekly small reward is a good Rewards for other communities too.

Start

  1. Bi-Weekly Official OG Post is good for us to keep connect & everyone can retweet.
  2. Art Rewards is good. Compelling Mysterious Art reward can be added because the nature of people want to discover things.
  3. Physical rewards are good and it can add on more value doing the event.
  4. The game in each round is easy to understand but we can add more new game every month.
    :tada: one click raffle to win a reward every bi-weekend reward
    :tada: # small mission for bi-weekend or monthly reward
    :tada: Theme mission/game for Fact-Fun-Fast-First-Feeling-Unexpected

Stop

  1. Slot game win rate is <10% :laughing:
1 Like

Thanks for your opinion.
Those are important things, but I think we can slightly push it back or can include little parts at next round. Tonyhan’s suggestion will make big change for current structure, so I think it will be better to focus on those changes at this moment.

1 Like

Tony, first of all thank you for all the ideas you have thrown out. I have understood most of the things you have mentioned. I would like to ask what you think is ideal, after all the auctions of a specific round ends. What happens to the remaining points of the people?

Do you think all points should be carried onto the following rounds and the holders will use them in auctions for the future rounds?

1 Like

Thanks, looks really interesting and I think we can definitely try it at test rounds.

One question :
What happens to the points after the auction of each round?

-Oh JM was fast lol

I think we should burn it quarterly and when we burn it, top rankers would get exclusive merch (ex. t-shirts, ID cards, etc…)

2 Likes

Hello Ghost fam,
I believe that the primary objective of the game is to encourage the participation of the holder community.
In my opinion, this can be achieved in two ways:

  1. the first is to link the rewards as much as possible to the involvement of the participants and therefore to their activism. This means excluding the luck component or at least limiting it as much as possible. Luck will keep on playing its role in raffles while games could be based on efforts.
  2. the second is involving the community in choosing which activities/outputs produced by the partecipants should be rewarded. (maybe rewarding the partecipation in the pool with some points as well)
    Obviously the choice of what to do in order to win would need to be well thought in order to include as many different talents as possible so that everybody could find his way to be part of the game.
    This is my synthetic idea.
    Best,
    Tasha Bullishovna
3 Likes

I like this idea.
The only thing what I am currently still doubting is.
Will these contests and auctions be held to keep the current community active or also to get attention from others outside the community?

My opinion ragarding, the current problem: less activity
Regarding the community: I believe its too fast to conclude that the community is not active since we just passed the summer months. It is well known within the internet community that during the summer period, less people are digitally active. This is also the reason why new games etc. never release in May, June, July or August but always in September because of the users behaviour. During the winter/cold/dark days, people tend to stay inside more often which naturally results in them beeing on the internet. So in my opinion the community will rise again naturally when the cold winter days are coming again. Also due to the current bearmarket I can imagine that less people are currently interested to be active within the NFT space. Also I believe that each activity will degrade over time and its very hard to find a system to keep people active through out the year(s). So it may also be something we have to accept and keep on developing new activities to trigger the community to participate rather than thinking about one solutional activity and believe that it will be sustainable for a long period of time.

Contest problem
Regarding the art contests etc. I think its positive for our community however we have to be aware that this is pure benefitial within the community and will less likely reach any attention outside the community.
Also my prediction is that certain artists will dominate regarding their skills and effort through out the months/years purely because they will be popular and well known within the community and it will be a friendly emotional vote rather than a rational vote. For example if person A, B, C has won the previous round and person D joins in the 6th round. It is very logical if person A, B, C will get more votes since they are already known within the community and person D will have an disadvantage which will most likely demotivate new people to join these contests.

Possible Solution:
Personally I have tried to think the past days about a solution but I think its the best to let the creators create art related to Ghostsproject and let the community vote which art is the most relevant to the monthly assignment/given topic. (for example related to a certain fragment or story).
After that the winner will be given the opportunity to collaborate with Mr. Misang to optimise the art within the quality/standards of Ghostsproject. This art will be sold from the Ghostsproject account in public (and can be an auction system).
The reason why this idea popped into my head is because it is a well known marketing strategy within the music industry for new upcoming artist to collaborate with bigger artists to give them the spotlight they deserve.
Afcourse this is a solution which may require Mr. Misang some time to able to adjust/optimise the art of the winner however I guess it may require the same amount of time making new arts for Gho-rounds.

The reason why I think its better to involve Mr. Misang and sell/publish the art from Ghostsproject accoutn is purely because of branding. It is very hard to support new artists without the support of an well known artist/brand. Mr Misang is the perfect solution for this since he is a well known artist witin the NFT-Space and attracts enough attention when he will release new art in collaboration with one of our new community artists. I think all of our community artists will be honored to have a collaboration art with Mr. Misang and may also learn from him during the collaboration period to see how they can improve their art and this may also attract a lot of new users who want to create art and given the possiblity to collaborate with Mr. Misang.

Also this idea does not only apply for graphical art but can also apply to music artists who can create music on top an excisting piece of fragment(s).

What do you think?

1 Like